Ogre versus Troll: Is Intelligent Design Anti-Evolution?

A blogging-friend, who goes by the name of Ogre MkV, is debating another blogger, JoeG, on the topic: Is Intelligent Design Anti-Evolution? Ogre's opening statement is up now at Cassandra's Tears:

Intelligent Design is Anti-evolution (Support Opening)

Having read that, I wanted to get some thoughts down before I read JoeG's response.

1) Ogre MKV makes a strong case that ID is anti-evolution by any reasonable definition. He builds a case that is it first necessary to define intelligent design and what it supports, and then goes on to cite conflicting definitions, all of which are anti-evolution.

2) Of the many people I have encountered via the internet, JoeG may well be the nastiest (thus the "Troll"). The more I think about it, the more I wonder what Ogre was thinking when he agreed to this debate. I will try to keep an open mind about what JoeG might say, but ... I've encountered him before at Uncommon Descent (where he is moderated) and his own blog (where he is vitriolic), and ... I expect more nastiness.

[ ... time passes ...]

And now I'm back from reading JoeG's opening statement, which was rather disappointing, but at least it maintained civility. The post consists primarily of long quotes of things other people (Wells, Behe, Dembski, etc.) say about ID, and winds up saying that ID has little to say about pretty much all aspects of evolutionary theory ... except the "blind watchmaker thesis". The blind watchmaker is a favorite topic that JoeG brings up often, and always as an argument against evolution. Maybe JoeG does not understand what "anti" means? (Ogre thought of that too).

Ogre MkV has cross-posted JoeG's opening statement. I can't actually recommend it, but there it is.

Heavy Hand of the Koch Brothers

Just this quick note for a BUSY election day. Cognitive Dissidence reports some excellent detective work on how the Koch brothers are operating behind the scenes in Wisconsin. Check it out, and go vote. Maybe not in that order.
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Madison as Hell

"An activist judge stubbornly insists that Wisconsin's legal system must be obeyed, even if Republicans disagree with it."

Or see it at Colbert Nation.

Wisconsin's Tuesday non-partisan elections are turning out to be anything but. The intensity and nastiness of 3rd party television advertising cannot be understated. I'm getting really tired of one sided calling the other stupid, ignorant, dirty, rabid, wicked, sleezy, anti-American, Communist, [re]tards, {inset ad hominem here}, scum, more ad hominem, disgusting, cruel, thug*, brutes, etc. etc..** Opinions aside, this language is uncalled for in any civilized discussion. If you cannot be bothered to think of an opponent as a real, thinking person with honest opinions, then you may not be qualified to be part of a civilized discussion.

* There seems to be a particular agenda to push this word, because it is showing up everywhere. It ain't random!

** These words culled from the comments at a site with decidedly one-sided opinions, but I'm pretty sure there are people on both sides speaking of/to each other like this.

What Would Woody Do?

What Would Woody Do?


Simply amazing political events in Wisconsin this week (a few samples: 1, 2, 3).

I have been recalling the words of a wise man - a business professor and amazingly good teacher - and I recall them as:

Unions are bad, but if your company has a union, they probably deserve it.

It's not too hard to see how unions might cause inefficiency, and if business and workers all played fair with each other, everyone would be better off. It's not too hard to see the track record of businesses, and see that unions are sometimes the only recourse workers have to gain fair treatment - or even to punish businesses for bad behavior.

I don't have any easy answers, but I'm pretty sure that Governor Walker's move to take away collective bargaining rights for State workers is only asking for worse trouble. The union might be bad, but you deserve it. Deal with it. Negotiate with it. Be fair, and treat it with respect. Don't try to legislate it away, or it might be replaced by something even worse.

Political Cheese Fondue

There are extraordinary events in Wisconsin politics this week. Our new Governor's anti-union legislation has ignited an amazing response, turning normally placid Cheeseheads into a melting pot of political turmoil.  Here is a sampling:

Daily Kos: Scott Walker's Pants Spontaneously Combust!

The Political Environment: Republicans in Madison are Flailing Fleeing, Failing

Brew City Brawler: Packers, Catholic Church denounce Walker union busting

Live Twitter updates from the Capitol Rotunda, via @RecallWakerNow

Illusory Tennant: Scott Walker receives 8,000 emails

The Corner Tavern: Wisconsin’s Diabolical Plot to Make Me Support the Packers

Happy Darwin Day!

Something a little different for Darwin Day (Charles Darwin's 202th Birthday!); I'd like to introduce my new co-blogger, Darwin the Cockatiel.


Darwin likes to assist me by landing on the keyboard while I am typing and supervising my fingers. This supervision consists of nipping at my fingers if he feels are not moving in an appropriate manner. By his definition, "appropriate" means they ought to be scritching his head instead of pecking at the keys.

Darwin came to us as as a "found" bird while we were searching for our own escaped bird. Some other people contacted us about a bird they found. It wasn't our bird, but we agreed to take care of him and help look for the original owner - which we did, but no takers. He's a delightful creature though and we are happy to keep him. Despite considerable effort we never did find our own bird, but for a short time we were fostering two Cockatiels. Apparently finding a bird that belongs to someone else is much easier than finding a bird that belongs to you. Maybe there are a lot of bird owners that don't want to be bird owners. No matter, we thing Darwin is a keeper!

The name was suggested by my wife, because we both admire Charles Darwin's contribution to science,  and when the bird puffs up the feathers around his beak, there is a striking resemblance.
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Image found here, source unknown

Darwin can be contacted at Darwin dot The dot Cockatiel at Gmail dot Com

Science Fail #4

Fail #4 refers to an editorial published in the Idaho Press-Tribune. It is copyrighted, so you will need to follow the link to the article, or you can just take my word that it is some amazingly stupid stuff. Much of it refers to old arguments that even Creationist are embarrassed to have even supported.

Evidence doesn’t support theory of evolution

[Via Greg Laden's Blog]


Bonus Section:

The award for the most unexpectedly non-sequitur comment in response to a a science article goes to ...

Morp: I observed an inverse reaction .When pigs call loudly for food you can silence them instantly and for a while by blowing a trumpet   [Found on SCIAM]

Um ... OK ... I don't doubt it ... but ... you play the trumpet to pigs???